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     Karl Loren Moderator Username: Kloren Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2003 |
The war in Iraq is declared to be over, but the shootings and killings continue. It would seem clear to me that President Bush cannot allow these killings to go on for a lengthy period and still expect to avoid criticism. In fact, this one problem could rear up to prevent him from winning the next election. Is there a solution within a moral framework? Yes! Many school systems have had the problem of refusal to report the crimes within their own schools -- so police agencies don't know how to handle the problems. A panel of education security experts who recently reviewed one Maryland county public school system concluded that the current reporting system was so deficient that school officials had no way of knowing the severity of crime in their schools. A 1997 report by high school principals had previously warned senior state administrators that only good luck had prevented a fatality from occurring. Many of the school system’s reporting inadequacies resulted from the lack of a standardized reporting form and the fact that school administrators were given too much discretion in deciding which incidents to report. Source: Click Here. In the area of child abuse it is already a very well established principle that it is a crime to fail to report a child abuse crime. Anyone "having cause to believe that a child's physical or mental health or welfare has been or may be adversely affected by abuse or neglect" MUST report the case immediately to a state or local law enforcement agency or the Texas Department of Protective and Regulatory Services (TDPRS). Source: Click here. I recall a fine man who drove a school bus for a private organization who was only accused of sexual abuse -- no proof presented. That was enough that the school HAD to report him, fire him from the job, and he wound up in jail -- without serious proof -- other than a distraught child's claims. In South Africa this concept holds true too. Pretoria - Anyone who does not immediately report cases of rape, abuse or molestation to the police should be prosecuted, anti-violence lobby groups said on Thursday. Source: Click Here. But the best example of this concept does come from India, and was established there literally hundreds of years ago. This Indian morality, by the way, gives us the original meaning of "Hue and Cry." So what is hue and cry? I tracked it down to the statute of Winchester (1285) or even earlier. During Anglo-Saxon (500 to 1066 AD) times, communities were divided into groups of 10 families. Each group was called a tything and was headed by a “tythingman”. Each member of a tything was responsible for the collective good behaviour of the others in the group. So if a member of a tything committed a crime, others had to catch the offender and bring him (or her) to court. Failure to do so resulted in a collective fine. And there was a responsibility of “hue and cry” if anyone actually witnessed a crime being committed. The “hue” part meant things like sounding horns. The “cry” part was verbal shouts. When a hue and cry was raised, everyone between the ages of 12 and 60 had to join in the chase to catch the criminal. The Normans (1066 to 1485 AD) retained this idea and the statute of Winchester was England’s first Police Act. Other than hue and cry, inhabitants of a region were also responsible for crimes committed within that region. The Country of India is home to a concept of justice that is known, also in the Western World, but not to the degree necessary. Individual groups have this morality, but not the US as a society -- yet! I suggest to you that the level of morality in any group can only be achieved when the individual members become responsible for the morality of their brethern. I speak here of the crime of failing to report a crime. Clearly many Iraqis are fully aware of WHO in their villages and towns are the ones who shoot at the Coalition Forces. Many will say they don't know! Many will say they are afraid to talk. But the fact is that the actual shooters are hidden in the silence of those who know and do not report. Peaceful democracy in Iraq is going to require some dramatic shifts in the attitudes of individual citizens. I don't think it can be enforced by soldiers, but there is a threat that can bring peace. The moral issue here is that the person who observes a crime and fails to report it is just as guilty as the direct offender. This concept must be utilized in Iraq. Further, the penalty for failure to report needs to be made the same as for the person actually committing the crime. This is not a fuzzy-warm touchy-feely form of negotiation, but a simple use of force that is not unlike the original violence of combat itself. We can state the morally obvious point that individual Iraqis both individually and collectively ARE guilty of allowing Sadham to rise to power, and therefore to contributing to the fact their nation became a source of evil and prospective great damage to other nations. To whatever degree this is recognized by one Iraqi, he needs to demonstrate that feeling of responsibility for the mess now current in Iraq by embracing this moral concept of reporting crimes. This is not likely to happen without force, but this CAN be imposed by the Coalition Forces. It is a simple law, not greatly different from similar laws in the United States and other countries. He who has knowledge of a crime and fails to report that knowledge to the police is just a guilty as the perpetrator, and the punishment is the same as the perpetrator will get. Harsh? Perhaps. But, effective. Ultimately, it will serve as the basis of group cohesion and group morality. The Iraqis are not yet a "moral group" where this concept would be embraced wholeheartedly, and if the Coalition Forces are ever to reconstruct Iraq, and bring "peace" this will be the only way to do it. Otherwise we face the impossible task of many hundreds of soldiers serving as policemen, and getting shot and killed during the process. This should not be as hard as it may seem. Many biased US news sources paint the picture in Iraq as far worse than it is. You generally have to pick from a very small list of honest media to get useful news. BAGHDAD — More than half the Iraqis responding to a recent poll said they want U.S.-led coalition forces to remain in Baghdad, but many also said the coalition is doing a poor job in restoring security. Source: Click here. While soldiers get show the individual Iraqi has a further guilty consciouss for being a party to a crime by not reporting it. The majority of Iraqis are ready to take responsibility, they just need the moral road to follow. It is now up to the US to lead that way! | ||
| Babu New member Username: Babu Post Number: 4 Registered: 05-2003 |
Stability & Order in Iraq is important to the whole world. Re-election of George W. Bush may be important to some in USA, but has no great relevence to the world at large. The most important thing to be accomplished by US forces in Iraq is that -- USA should not be perceived as an occupier, but should be perceived as a liberator. When this happens, all attacks on US forces will cease automatically and the general public will co-operate with US military personnel in Iraq. Soldiers in general do not behave very humanely or decently with the plebians when they occupy or try to control the land of another country, which was well proven in the earlier US engagement in Vietnam, Cambodia etc. The military has to first observe all morality itself, in the strictest sense and treat the Iraqi public as a protector and not an autocratic ruler. Iraqis should not be made to feel that they have been shifted from frying pan to fire. Iraqis did not ask for this favour of liberation, and USA having taken up on its own -the responsibility of liberation, cannot be seen to act irresponsibly and indulge in violent suppression - and simultaneously hold Iraqis responsible for their plight for not having resisted Saddam in good time. Nothing is more irrational than this thinking. Winning the confidence of Iraqis takes some sacrifice and USA should be ready to do that sacrifice with out any hesitation after having gotten into this voluntarily -or- auto compulsively..?? American lives may be very valuable to Americans, but cannot be considered more valuable by the rest of the world than any other life in the world - in the strict sense of generally acceptable morality. Another important aspect not to be forgotten is that the whole world is watching what US military is doing in Iraq. America has its credibility at stake already, with very little proof having been produced of what it had claimed the original reason to be - for the war. Any excessive force resorted to by US forces will have adverse repurcussions on world perception of USA and will endanger the lives of Americans living or travelling abroad. American civilians abroad are as much entitled to protection and security as those living presently in USA and their interst cannot be compromised at any cost. MSR Ayyangar. | ||
| Karl Loren Moderator Username: Kloren Post Number: 27 Registered: 05-2003 |
I like Dr. Ayyangar's posting. I think it is well-reasoned and would be more "popular" than my own original posting. His posting made me realize that I left out one concept that may well make his and my position more aligned. The law is just and should be enacted in Iraq -- that is, that knowledge about a crime which is not reported makes the person as guilty of the crime as the actual perpertrator. Also, that the punishment should be the same. However, I should have added, and also have been nudged into changing my position somewhat, that this should be a "law" but should not be implemented 100% rigidly, instantly. It is not unusual with certain laws to announce that it IS the law, but becomes effective in stages -- giving people a chance to become accustomed to it. The law should be enacted, perhaps as a "military edict" for now, but should feature gradients of types of crime, types of knowledge and even types of person who are expected to follow it. Thus, the lightest gradient could well be to say that "village leaders" or some category that fits in the culture, are the first bound by this law, and that the crimes that should be reported, in the first stage, only involve shootings in the form of ambushes, or some other categorization of crime. And, the easy gradient could be nothing more than that any such person who failed to report could be removed from that position of leadership, or even just fined and publicly named. The concept I would introduce to my original posting is just "gradual implementation" but with the "goal" of full adherence well positioned for anyone to follow who wants to be "more moral" than others. | ||
| Babu New member Username: Babu Post Number: 5 Registered: 05-2003 |
A law is only as good as it is obeyed. Why will Iraqis obey a law passed by American foces in Iraq, unless they are convinced that it is for their good. There is also a question of legitimacy & authority to pass any law. Who has the authority to pass the law..? It should not be a sham like military dictators passing new laws every day in Pakistan to consolidate their own powers and to legitimise their authority. The problem is not enacting any law. The problem is generating willingness and the desire to accept the law by the Iraqi public. Why will an Iraqi be willing to expose another Iraqi to the american forces as long as he perceives Americans as occupying forces to rule over them. If a simple criticism of American involvement & action in Iraq by an American journalist is to be considered "Treason" - how can an Iraqi be expected to commit treason against his own countrymen - to qualify to be considered law abiding & responsible by the occupying forces. This can and will only be considered by the rest of the world as nothing but an aberration if benignly viewed, and flagrant duplicity of "moral standards" if harshly judged. The key to the solution in Iraq is not enacting new laws by any reckoning -- the key to normalcy is restoring the self-esteem of the average Iraqi which was robbed by Saddam and deprived for long. MSR Ayyangar. |
