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An Exchange Of Thoughts With A Psychologist

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Karl Loren in Blue

Dear Charn,

I'm intrigued as to how you got my address?  I do invite people to write, but usually they use a "message form" that your message is not using?
 
Perhaps you read some of my recent postings at:
 
http://www.moralgroup.com/NewsItems/Islam/p20.htm
http://www.moralgroup.com/NewsItems/Islam/p2.htm
http://www.moralgroup.com/NewsItems/Islam/p19.htm
 
??
 
In any event I feel strongly that each person, and therefore each group of people, is entirely responsible for their own condition.
 
It is NEVER right to say that one group suffered because of another group's actions.  I recognize that this would be the very common method of logic -- perhaps well in accord with the principles of psychology.
 
But, in moral truth, each person is responsible for anything and everything that happens to him.
 
This will probably sound strange to you == it is part of my personal philosophy and moral code.
 
I have published thousands of pages on morality -- much of it here:
 
www.happinessonline.org
 

Now, further to your comments.

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From: Charn Deol [mailto:charni@shaw.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:48 PM
To: lct@oralchelation.com
Subject: Dangers of Islam

Dear Mr. Loren

I am a Canadian born Indian (Sikh) who is a psychologist and have been following the rise of Islamic fundamentalism with great concern. Not only has Western Civilization weakened itself with the call for a multicultural pluralistic immigration policy, but in the process has also hindered the growth and evolution of the Islamic faith and culture, which is still operating as if it were the 15 Century. 

I certainly agree that Islamic BEHAVIOR is very much in the 15th century.

The so-called "Western call for multicultural pluralistic immigration"   is much more an accident of missing policy than a "call."

The west receives immigrants through a complex set of restrictions and freedoms that has little logic -- much complexity.

There are those in the West who feel, strongly, that cultures should stay separate, as do many Muslims currently, but there are also those in the West who feel that "people" should become some sort of homogenous whole.

Both of those patterns exist -- some areas show a growing isolation and other areas (and groups) show an increasing assimilation into a common culture.

My bottom line on this is that homogeneous patterns are suppressive to individual freedom and spiritual development -- but also that isolation can be equally harmful to society.

So, I have no big concern for either pattern developing.

I do have a large concern for any isolation that also includes adoption of what I would call gross violations of a common sense morality -- that seems to be happening with Islam.

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Western Civilization for some unknown reason has had the ability to bring compassion and respect for all men while religions such as Islam not only deny compassion but still teach hatred. How do we get our Western leadership to understand these real  facts. A faith such as Islam, based on a true military figure such as Mohammed, has it’s beginnings in violence. The cultural genetics of the faith is therefore rooted in disrespect for all other faiths and also for women. When our leadership has a mullah stand equally with priests and rabbis ( I don’t have much respect for them either but that’s another story), I cringe. Have any of these leaders or their bureaucratic underlings read and analyzed the Koran. It is a fable full of contradictions, violence and racism. Yes, there are good sayings and positive statements, but they are easily overlooked by the overwhelming hatred within the text. 

I generally agree with you.  However, it is also fundamental to my philosophy that it is wrong to force another to believe as you do.  In this respect it is OK with me for a person to DECIDE to be crazy -- as long as his behavior does not adversely impact me or others.  

When he DECIDES to become more sane, I must be ready to help, as I can, and for a fee if that is appropriate.

So, I differentiate sharply between behavior and belief.

I do not tolerate insane or immoral behavior, but I do not attempt to change beliefs.

Restricting unwanted behavior may well lead to a change in belief, but I still believe that man is capable of believing whatever he decides to believe -- force never changes a belief system other than to add trauma from the force, suppress, perhaps, the earlier belief. 

I don’t understand how the West has allowed this to happen. There is a burning hatred in the Mosques – you do not see many Muslim leaders questioning or denouncing these extremists en masse – that is because they would have to denounce their religion and culture which has existed for many centuries within a violent setting.  

I agree, of course, but neither do I see Westerners denouncing psychiatry -- until my own Church's Tom Cruise started that battle so publically recently.

The recognition of "evil" is one of the harder things for man to do.

There is much evil, much immorality, amongst us.

Ultimately none of us can be free if any are slaves -- so my personal work is to bring truth to people and help them change behavior toward morality and health. 

I could keep going, but as a Psychologist and concerned citizen for the growth of a compassionate worldwide society, it is alarming to myself,( who has a foot in both the Eastern cultures and Western values) that we have allowed Eastern religious cultural values to thrive in our midst with such dire consequences.    

I don't regard "compassion" as the primary goal of society -- unless you carefully define that word to include proper exchange.  For instance, generally I feel that charity is harmful to both the recepient and the giver.

The most basic factor in morality is "fair exchange."  Something given for something taken.  When that balance is fair, according to the persons involved, we have sanity and morality.

So, why exactly did you feel the need to write to me about this???

My current efforts have been to expose the barbaric and immoral BEHAVIOR of not only Muslims, but many others -- that has been a large part of my greater mission in life for some time.

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In this sense the practice of psychiatry (even psychology) is one of the most immoral behaviors around -- so I wonder how you function in that profession?

Regards

Charn Deol        

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Dear Mr Loren

I subscribe to your weekly newsletter and responded to your request with regards to your article on Islam this Wednesday.

 Thank you -- I have enjoyed the exchange and invite you to continue as you might wish.

I have no faith in most psychological philosophies (psychiatry I agree is even more dangerous).

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Spiritual development in any manner is okay for me as long as “it does no harm to others.”

The point is well put!

My reason to need to comment re Islamic fundamentalism whenever I get the chance is that it is NOT an isolated small group of individuals within the faith that are perpetuating the violence. The violence is insidious to the culture and modern Western technological development passed into their hands is making them much more dangerous for the rest of the world. Add to this the general silence by the Moslem leadership ( acceptance ?) on these issues and we have perpetual violence against the innocent.

 I know this culture well having grown up in the Sikh community. Sikh’s reside in India next to Pakistan and have a militaristic tradition to their religion i.e. the sword is part of their religion clothing – how can you abide with your soul in peace when you are consciously wearing a article of violence on your person at all times ? I have therefore seen the violence in this community i.e. the worst Canadian mass murder was by Sikh terrorists in the downing of an Air India jet with 329 innocent souls in it.

 So I am just another concerned citizen of the West that sees the inability of our leaders to act based on facts and thought that your article added factual information that needs to be incorporated into the dangerous situation that is upon us.

 Best Regards

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